Because I Want to Talk,
we're here with Lee Se Dol, the 9th Dan player.
He still has his final match of go ahead,
but he had officially announced his retirement...
as a professional player.
Will you elaborate?
- I took pride. - Yes.
I used to regard myself as the best, almost,
or one of the best.
Shall I say that AI threw a finishing blow?
A new being with a huge presence appeared.
It was unbeatable to my knowledge.
And I thought it'd be difficult for me to keep going.
(Kim Hyun Jin)
- That was it. - I see.
(Kim Hyun Jin)
(Host, Lee Dong Wook)
(MC, Jang Do Yeon)
(Seo Young Do Band and Jo Jung Sik)
(Because I Want to Talk)
(Lee Dong Wook, actor and talk show host)
(Seo Young Do Band)
Hello, you're watching Because I Want to Talk.
I'm Lee Dong Wook. It's great to see you.
(Dong Wook wants to talk.)
(MC, Jang Do Yeon)
Do you often buy lottery tickets?
Will you raise your hand if you ever bought one?
- Good. Even Do Yeon did. - Yes.
The reason I've asked you about the lottery is...
because I wanted to tell you a little bit about probabilities.
You must guess all six numbers with the lottery, right?
The probability of guessing all those six numbers is...
1 out of 8,140,000.
It's similar to being struck by lightning twice.
- Not once, twice. - Yes.
But...
there's a slimmer chance than winning the lottery.
With 19 lines horizontally, and 19 lines vertically,
the game is played on a board with 361 points.
It's the game of Go.
(The game of Go)
They say there hasn't been a single match...
that was exactly the same...
for thousands of years until now.
There's almost an infinite number of cases.
Some say the number of cases for a game of Go is...
higher than the number of all atoms in the universe.
So they often compare the game to the universe.
(The game of Go means the universe.)
The guest I'll be introducing tonight is...
the person who had conquered this universe.
(Someone who had conquered the universe)
In the match against the AI, AlphaGo,
that had fascinated the world, he was the sole human...
to win.
(Is it who I think it is?)
It's the 9th Dan professional of Go, Lee Se Dol.
(Lee Se Dol, 9th Dan, a professional Go player)
(Welcome, Lee Se Dol, the 9th Dan professional of Go.)
- It's good to see you. - Yes.
It's nice to see you.
(He also greets Seo Young Do Band politely.)
Until now,
he was the first guest to go say hello to our band.
(What does he mean?)
- Didn't Gong Yoo say hello? - He did not.
He only knows how to brag.
Well, I'm handsome.
(Please brag about something like this more.)
I'm sure everyone knows who Lee Se Dol is...
when they don't even know about the game of Go,
or know how to play the game.
Do you know who I am, Se Dol?
Of course.
- Was that... - I do.
I just sounded like a member of a cult.
That's not what I meant.
You're very familiar to me.
- Am I? - Yes.
- You were Grim Reaper... - Yes.
- in the famous "Goblin." - Yes.
- I personally liked... - Yes.
"Touch Your Heart" more than "Goblin."
You liked "Touch Your Heart."
(I liked "Touch Your Heart" more.)
And you were in "My Girl."
- Yes, "My Girl." - You acted...
- with Lee Da Hae. - Yes.
I actually watched that drama three times.
- He remembers everything. - He knows all...
- about your filmography. - Right.
Have you watched it three times?
When I watch a drama, I fast-forward it...
and finish an episode in 10 to 15 minutes.
Have you understood everything?
I thought I understood, but it's not the same when I watch it again.
So that's funny.
Actually, I had personal questions...
I wanted to ask you.
You've announced your retirement, and you have the final game ahead.
It's the match...
between him and HanDol.
The name sounds very familiar to me.
- HanDol. - It's Se Dol and HanDol.
It must have been tough to make that decision.
You've experienced a game against an AI system.
Yet, you've accepted the challenge once again.
I'd like to know why.
I didn't want to retire quietly.
To have an event match before I quit...
Yes.
That was my personal desire.
I've thought of a few other professional players,
but it was...
burdensome to ask them.
It wouldn't be easy for them to say no since I'm retiring.
- Right. They could feel pressured. - Yes.
So I couldn't ask them, and I got the offer.
I was offered a match against HanDol.
I thought: "An AI system won't feel pressured."
I thought it wouldn't be so bad to take this offer.
So that's how the match was arranged.
It's on December 18th.
It will be aired on the same day as ours.
Our show will have been aired at 11 p.m. today,
but his first retirement match...
will have been finished this afternoon.
Let's...
picture it for a moment.
What do you think will have happened? Do you think you'll win?
The same AI system is installed on my personal computer at home.
- Yes. - I had it installed.
I couldn't win.
So there's...
a very high chance... that I will have lost the game.
(I will have lost the game.)
I'm not saying this to avoid being embarrassed.
But it's kind of like...
It's not sad, it's funny and sad, I think.
I think that's how it will turn out.
I already feel worried.
When he said he could lose the game,
I felt a bit choked up.
If you were to lose,
can I break in and switch it off?
(I shall turn it off.)
You can turn off the fuse box.
He can't do anything if I turned off the fuse box.
I appreciate it.
I've heard that a lot about the match against AlphaGo.
Exactly. How dare a machine try to beat a human?
Right.
(Stop acting up, machine.)
There will be three games in total.
The advantages will differ in the series.
- Yes. - If one loses,
he'll be given more advantages in the next game.
- That's how it goes. - Right.
Now that you've mentioned it, I wanted to ask you that.
I heard the advantages will change in the series.
Changing advantage, or alternative moves...
Many viewers would be unfamiliar with these terms.
So we've prepared a Go board.
Yes.
He'll be explaining it himself. This is such an honor.
It feels quite embarrassing to see the board here.
(It's a perfect combination of Se Dol and a Go board.)
The game of Go is played...
with black and white stones being placed alternatively.
This is very awkward.
I'm watching it right before my eyes.
When you place black and white stones alternatively,
the game is considered to be played with alternative moves.
The first one to place the stone is obviously advantageous.
The white player is given six and a half territories.
Yes.
You must be unfamiliar with the concept of "territory."
- We place a stone... - Yes.
- on an intersection. - Yes.
- This becomes a territory. - Yes.
Say...
I put the stones like this.
- You can't get in here, right? - Right.
- It's all closed. - Yes.
- There are 9 points. - Yes, 9 points.
This becomes a territory of nine points.
(Territory of 9 points)
- We take turns to place the stones, - Yes.
and the black player gives 6.5 territories to the white player.
That's how the game goes. Since it'll be a match with handicaps,
it's different.
I get to place two stones at first.
If you put two stones here in the beginning,
does that mean you have priority...
- to these nine territories? - Yes.
So eventually,
that means you'll have the advantage of 10.5 more territories,
or about 11 territories,
and you still think it's difficult for a man to win.
Will you explain...
how good HanDol is in a way we can understand?
I heard HanDol already beat...
the ninth Dan players, Park Jung Hwan and Shin Jin Seo...
who compete for the best player in the world.
You can't beat it in an alternate game.
It's the matter of how far the handicap match goes.
You can never beat it in an alternate game.
So on equal terms,
- you can never win against it. - Never.
I think it'll still be difficult for me to win with these advantages.
It definitely won't be easy.
(Because Dong Wook Wants to Know about HanDol)
This is nice.
There's a reason I came here.
I'll be meeting with HanDol prior to the 9th Dan Lee Se Dol,
before his match.
I intend to get information.
That's why I paid a surprise visit to NHN Entertainment.
It's not actually a surprise.
It has all been discussed before.
(A man walks towards him like a computer.)
- Hello. - Yes.
I'm in the Game AI team that developed HanDol.
I'm Lee Chang Yool.
- Yes. - It's a pleasure to see you.
Are you like the key figure in the development of HanDol?
All employees of our team play the key roles.
- I see. - Yes.
Will I be able to identify the true nature of HanDol?
HanDol is currently practicing...
very hard before the match.
It's practicing even now.
- Shall we go see it? - Yes. Let's go.
Please follow me.
Hello.
(Let's go spy on it.)
I'm finally seeing HanDol.
With all due respect, does HanDol know I'm coming?
Pardon?
I'm sorry.
This is it.
He must be thinking I'm absurd.
(Jokes don't work on him.)
- That's HanDol. - Yes.
(It's practicing by itself before the match.)
It's taking less than a second to place a stone.
It finishes a game in a minute or two.
You can say it plays thousands, millions of matches.
(HanDol 3.0 is the newest version improved with ensemble learning.)
We've been developing HanDol since 2017.
When we had...
HanDol 2.0 that played games...
by themselves,
its winning rate was almost 100 percent...
against professional players.
Is it HanDol 3.0 that will play against Se Dol?
Yes, and HanDol 3.0 has the winning rate of 90 percent...
against HanDol 2.0.
The 2.0 version had the winning rate...
of over 90 percent against the professional players.
And the new 3.0 version has the winning rate...
of over 90 percent...
against the 2.0 version.
What does HanDol 2.0 feel about it?
Wouldn't it be disappointed?
- It's a computer. - Yes.
I'm sorry.
When it has a game ahead against Lee Se Dol,
the 9th Dan player,
does it have...
all his records of previous games input in the system?
None of the records of Se Dol, nor those of humans were input.
So it only practices...
by playing against itself.
For HanDol,
it produces thousands of models as it learns.
Among those models,
it picks out a few of the best ones.
Just like "Sky Castle."
Well...
It's all about the grades, then.
- Sure. - You're very cold-hearted, sir.
It has to play well.
(It has to get to the top of the pyramid.)
People think of AlphaGo first when they hear an AI of Go.
How good or bad is HanDol compared to AlphaGo?
If you were to compare the two,
I'd say it's a bit better than AlphaGo...
which defeated Se Dol with a score of 4 to 1.
- It's been upgraded. - Yes.
After two years of development,
it was ranked in third place...
in the contest of computer Go programs.
I see.
(3rd place of computer Go programs, HanDol)
It's a close match where you can...
never predict anything.
It's a match between HanDol and Dong Wook.
Who will win in this match?
(The match begins with 41 advantages to Dong Wook.)
(HanDol's first move)
(He'll place the stones as HanDol does.)
Why did it place the stone here?
Then I will...
stop this stone.
(He starts defending every single stone.)
(HanDol's second move)
I will stop it from advancing.
Mankind will not back down.
(He looks around once.)
(He looks around twice.)
(He looks around 3 times.)
(He looks around 4 times.)
From now on, you can't look back and forth...
more than three times every move.
It's psychological warfare.
(The match goes on.)
(HanDol's crucial move)
It keeps increasing.
(HanDol's winning rate shoots up.)
(AI is trying to win with 41 handicap stones.)
Does he have any weak spot?
He has many.
Does he?
There are a lot of stones that can be captured.
There's one here.
- Right there? - You can play here.
You can also play here too. You can put it here.
Right.
- There's also one here. - Right.
(She's in HanDol's team.)
(The victory of human comes by a team kill.)
So if I play here, I win, right?
(Feeling lonely)
(Just then...)
Wait.
Did you just throw the stone?
It slipped out of my hand.
(It's not fair.)
How long has HanDol been trained for...
to match with Se Dol?
For the match with Se Dol,
HanDol will yield two handicap stones.
HanDol has never done...
the self-learning under that condition.
Has it only been trained in an alternate game?
Honestly, I'm worried...
if HanDol would do a good job...
or win one single match.
I'm still not sure about it.
When the match with HanDol was announced,
the most searched word on the internet...
It was sensational.
It was all about the match the whole day.
How would you want this match...
to be remembered by the people?
As I prepared for this match, I thought...
whether I win or lose,
I must stay confident.
That is the goal.
As this will be my last match...
whether I win or lose,
- I will try to stay confident. - I see.
(Lee Se Dol versus HanDol)
(Edited video on the day of the match)
(HanDol had the upper hand until the middle of the match.)
AI HanDol's winning rate has...
shot up just now.
(Se Dol's crucial move)
It has.
- It plummeted. - Its winning rate has dropped...
- because of the move in the center. - But...
What?
This derives...
the victory of Lee Se dol.
Finally, Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan...
has won the match.
(He didn't expect a sweep.)
- That was really... - Congratulations.
(Eventually, Se Dol was confident.)
What you have just said...
makes me look back at myself.
Without fluctuating hopes and fears...
by ratings, texts, and comments...
Of course.
I hope...
by the end of this talk show...
I could still be confident.
(I hope I could still be confident.)
(Cheer up.)
Why wouldn't you be?
You're doing an amazing job.
Are you crying?
When I heard Se Dol would be the guest of this show,
I've researched his Go life.
But there are a few things that are uncertain...
if they're credible or not.
Is it okay if I ask you a few questions?
- Of course. - Okay.
I'm a lady who can exercise news literacy.
It's Jang Do Yeon's Fact Check.
(Jang Do Yeon's Fact Check)
I read this in an article:
"The reason Lee Se Dol keeps his hair long during the match..."
"is because of the jinx."
It's like Samson's strength.
Considering the time, it could be...
because big matches normally happen...
- at the end of the year. - I see.
They take place at the end of the year,
so I ended up having...
long hair by that time.
Do you get your hair cut...
every spring like you molt...
and let it grow out?
I get my hair cut...
- about twice a year. - I see.
I have no jinx at all.
Perhaps you're lazy, right?
Right.
(Yes.)
Four words concluded it.
(Because he was lazy)
- I still go to the barbershop. - Okay.
I'm more comfortable going to the barbershop.
When I go to the salon,
they ask: "How would you like your hair done?"
Then I answer:
"I'll do a buzz cut."
That's what I say...
because that's all I know.
People don't know it these days.
They go: "Pardon? What was it?"
"What's a buzz cut?"
It must have been easier to take a celebrity's photo...
and ask them to do it like that.
Or you can pick out a photo of yourself on the internet...
with your best hair cut and ask them to cut it like that.
- With his own picture? - With his own picture.
You can be like: "I'm the celebrity."
I like that idea.
- That was a good idea. - My idea got picked.
Let's move on to the next fact check.
As if he was born to play Go,
Se Dol's name perfectly matches his job.
There are rumors behind his name:
"He was named Se Dol because he's the third son."
"It's because he has three moles on the back of his neck..."
"that form a triangle."
And so on.
These are like...
the birth myth of a nation.
As if Park Hyeokgeose came out of an egg.
Unfortunately...
I don't recall when I was a baby.
I believe I didn't have moles when I was born.
But I have them now.
- I can see it from here. - Really?
I do have them.
But I don't think...
I was born with them.
I assume I was named Se Dol...
because I was the third son.
That's my guess.
Kids don't usually name themselves.
Right.
Not usually. None of them.
Right.
Since no one can explain this fact,
it's okay to leave it like the birth myth of a nation.
I agree with you.
Here comes the next Fact Check.
This is a famous quote of his.
"I'm not confident..."
"in losing."
This is the most famous quote of Se Dol.
This is very famous.
I heard even he likes that quote too.
It's not that I like what I said...
but I did say it, though.
- I did. - Right.
Back then, it was...
a three-match meeting,
- and I had won the first match. - Yes.
They asked: "Would this match end tomorrow?"
"Well, I'm not confident."
"Why? Are you not feeling well?"
"In losing."
(I'm not confident in losing.)
You said it in a funny way.
You said it like a joke. You were giving it a twist.
I was embarrassed, so I left quickly.
Then I realized they wrote articles about it.
But I didn't say it in an official interview.
I ran off because I was embarrassed.
But overall, your quote was fascinating...
- to be left in history. - You're right.
Every time I do a research on the guest,
sometimes I get confused...
whether they're credible or not.
I ask all of you to check...
the information of the writer for accuracy.
Don't forget to cross-check.
I'm Jang Do Yeon of Fact Check.
(Detailed gesture)
Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan.
I keep thinking that he's full of confidence.
It's not like he's showing off or anything,
- but it's the confidence... - Right.
that comes from trusting himself...
and being the best Go player in the world.
We have a segment called...
"Flex Talk."
I prepared a few keywords for you.
Tell us if you could...
- show off or not. - Okay.
"Genius."
(Flex Keyword: Genius)
"Is Lee Se Dol a genius or an eager beaver?"
I've wanted to know.
I would say I'm a genius.
I'm close to being a genius when it comes to Go.
(I'm close to being a genius when it comes to Go.)
That was nice.
You have to do it in the flexing posture.
- Please do it! - I mean...
(Something like this?)
Right, right.
[Kocowa Ver] SBS E03 'Because Lee Dong Wook Wants to Talk' "Lee Se Dol" -♥ Ruo Xi ♥-
- I'm not usually like this. - Okay.
I'm not this kind of person.
It's quite embarrassing.
To brag about myself,
- I made the debut when I was 13. - Yes.
To be honest with you,
it's not easy to become a professional Go player.
- It's quite difficult. - I know that it's as hard...
as a camel going through a needle's eye.
However, I didn't have to worry about making the debut.
(However, I didn't have to worry about making the debut.)
So you thought:
"I'll be a professional Go player for sure."
- It's a new level of worry. - "At what age do I make it?"
That's what mattered to me.
(At what age does he make it, that's what mattered.)
(He successfully flexes.)
I'll stop now.
- I'm not this kind of person. - "I will be..."
"a professional Go player for sure,"
"but am I the one that would break the record of the youngest or not?"
Something along those lines, right?
It's a shame I couldn't break the youngest record.
That was amazing.
I have another question.
Do you think if an eager beaver tries hard,
one could defeat a genius?
Let me put it this way. If a genius tries hard,
it gets scary.
There goes another quote.
Every time you say something like that, your eyes are...
(Why did your eyes get so scary?)
He looks at me from a different angle.
(He dominated the world with this look of his.)
That's right.
Although you have the final match to attend,
you did announce your retirement as a professional Go player.
In fact,
this is what I've been wanting to ask you,
but this could be a bit sensitive.
Could you let us know what led you to the decision?
- I took pride. - Yes.
I used to regard myself...
as the best, almost, or one of the best,
but then...
shall I say that AI...
threw a finishing blow?
You're talking about the match with AlphaGo?
It was unbeatable to my knowledge.
A new being with a huge presence appeared.
The fact that we beat each other...
has now lost its significance.
That's...
what came to my mind.
I learned how to play Go when I was around six...
when Go was all about art and morality.
That's how I learned it,
but I grew up to find that it'd turned into mind sports.
I learned it as an artwork, however,
which two players build upon each other's move,
- and it was not the case anymore. - That's right.
What kind of artwork would that be?
AI is not cut out for that.
What I learned was art.
With the appearance of AI, this whole thing...
- was as good as demolished. - That's right.
So I thought...
it'd be difficult for me to keep going.
(Go was a form of art.)
Okay.
The 9th Dan player Lee Se Dol was...
utterly defeated by AlphaGo, an AI program,
which shocked the world.
In a match with AlphaGo, the 9th Dan player Lee Se Dol...
was completely defeated, having lost three games in a row.
(Solitude, coming from playing against AI alone)
(Regret, from losing the game unexpectedly)
(What was more shocking than that was...)
(the fact that Go was not art anymore.)
(March 2016, Lee Se Dol versus AlphaGo)
While going through this match,
you lost as much as seven kilograms, I heard.
I can see that you are rather slim.
Yes, I did at the time.
Was it because you were concerned about the game?
Considering what I had said about it,
the fact that I lost the game 3 to 0...
- stressed me out, I should say. - That's true.
I think that was why.
What he said at the time was:
"I got this."
"Humans cannot be defeated by machines yet."
Looking back, I feel embarrassed.
This is Go, where there are...
- endless possibilities for moves. - That's true.
So I thought...
they've got a long way to go,
which was preposterous, in fact.
That was why I said that.
I should have listened to those AI experts...
- and better prepared myself... - You didn't listen.
for the game,
but I got complacent instead.
I watched the game on TV.
I don't know much about Go games,
- but everyone was raving about it, - That's true.
and the match was being streamed live...
on about seven channels,
so when I turned the TV on, I just had to watch it.
I remember it being the first game...
where I saw your face...
going deadpan all of a sudden...
as if to have been hit in the head.
How did you feel at the time? What made you make such a face?
In fact,
I had been at a severe disadvantage in the beginning, which did not...
change much up until that moment.
When I managed to recoup...
a little bit,
I began to think: "Computers can't..."
"stay perfect after all."
"I may be able to turn..."
- "this around." - "There may be a breakthrough."
"I knew it."
"They're not perfect yet."
That's what I was thinking at the time.
If I were...
to show you here,
if I may.
I went like this,
because I had to get that bit.
Now, I can say this...
because AlphaGo played like that,
but at the time,
I would not have foreseen...
this kind of move, and the reason is this.
As you can see,
- there are a lot of black stones... - Yes.
which means...
- this was sort of my territory, - It's already been set up.
which was intruded upon out of nowhere.
This was totally unexpected.
With this move, you realized that you lost...
- this round. - Yes, it was over.
It was as if the computer...
gave in a little bit previously with that move in mind.
- Like, "Let's give him that one." - Yes.
I got goosebumps.
It's like, you've been framed?
I'm not sure what that guy had in mind,
- considering it's pretty unusual. - I know.
- You can't ask it. - You see,
as I was asking you, "You've been framed?"
I was wondering to whom I'm asking for an answer.
- Now I understand your frustration! - Tell me about it.
- Now I understand. - If it were a human,
- you'd grab it by the collar... - That's right.
asking for an answer or something.
Could you tell me,
Lee Se Dol, the 9th Dan,
where you had expected it...
to place its next move at the time?
- At the time, - Go ahead, please.
I thought it'd be around here,
here, or here.
- So it can expand its territory. - That's right,
But it attacked mine instead...
to expand its area...
exponentially with that move.
With that one, this round...
was practically over.
It was not fathomable.
You see,
this may sound off the topic,
but my family was watching the game...
in the hotel at the time,
and I felt so sorry.
- For your family? - Yes, after the first round.
When I lost it, I felt so sorry,
but I remember not being able to express my feelings to them well.
They came all the way to stay at the hotel with me,
and if I lost the game,
I thought my wife...
- and my daughter... - Your daughter.
might be disappointed in me.
Also, I was worried that they might get...
talked about, in terms of how they were distracting me.
I remember getting worried...
for them in that respect.
Let me ask your wife a question.
She's here.
She was wiping...
her tears.
Who are you?
Hello. Nice to meet you.
He just said that he felt sorry...
for his family after the first game.
Is this your first time hearing this?
Yes.
That's why you were tearing up.
I didn't know I would, which perplexed me.
How did you feel...
at the time?
I was watching his game...
with another Go player...
who got extremely serious over time,
- and it worried me. - Yes.
When he came back to the hotel,
he didn't show any emotions,
so I thought that he was okay.
Apart from the specific match...
with AlphaGo, does he normally talk about other games...
when he comes home? He doesn't, does he?
(Anxious)
At home,
he stays upbeat when he's with us,
or he just goes to his room...
and stays there.
He doesn't show his negative feelings toward me.
He doesn't show his feelings in general,
- That's right. - but then...
he said that he felt sorry for you after the first game,
- which made your tear up. - Yes.
- Also, this was news to you. - Yes.
The 2nd and the 3rd round continued,
and you were defeated in both of them.
Also, as if...
by fate, the day...
when the third round was held...
turns out to be their tenth wedding anniversary.
It was their wedding anniversary.
Were you be able to think...
about your tenth wedding anniversary on that day?
In fact, I don't remember it well.
I didn't know whether it was...
our tenth anniversary that day,
and I remember realizing it later on reading a news article.
You know,
as we continue our conversation, I have this feeling...
- I remember it differently. - What is it?
DeepMi** had sent us...
a bottle of wine in celebration of our anniversary,
and it sort of annoyed me.
(It annoyed me.)
It defeated you and then gave you a bottle of wine.
Celebrating our tenth wedding anniversary or whatever.
I remember talking about this together.
I remember it now that I hear it.
You, Se Dol,
and your wife...
don't seem to care too much about these things,
we are making mountains out of those molehills.
As a matter of fact,
I don't celebrate wedding anniversaries, birthdays, and so on.
But I did care...
quite a bit that day.
My plan was this.
I was going to beat it 3 to 0,
and celebrate our tenth anniversary.
That was my ridiculous plan.
That plan of yours...
turned into three consecutive defeats,
and now it got to a point...
where your wife says that her memory of that day remains patchy.
The event would not have sat comfortably with you.
As you mentioned, the morning of the fourth round...
dawned.
How did you feel in the morning that day?
Considering I was defeated 3 to 0,
I wasn't sure if I could win, frankly speaking.
- I was rather disheartened. - Yes.
Then my daughter said:
"Don't go, Dad. It's 3 to 0."
She said: "Just play with me."
And I absolutely loved it.
I said: "I should get going, though."
"You should do what you should do."
That was so encouraging.
That's how you entered the fourth round,
where you played "the miraculous move,"
which was critical in scoring...
the first...
and final victory for humanity...
against artificial intelligence.
It was a miraculous move.
In the beginning,
I tried so hard to bide my time.
This was not how I play Go.
This wasn't my style.
I had to force myself and be defensive.
I was very wrong in thinking...
that it would not play well in the beginning.
Since there's nothing to base its judgments upon,
there's nothing it can possibly compute, I thought.
It can't when there's nothing.
But what's starkly different about it...
as opposed to humans is...
that it's at its strongest in the beginning.
And...
having been defeated 3 to 0, I sort of learned my lesson.
"It's very foolish to go all in from the very beginning."
"I must avoid giving it all away in the beginning."
"Instead, I should wait until sometime in the middle."
In a way, you can say it's a glitch.
- That's what I should wait for... - Let's wait and see.
even though it didn't go well.
- Wait patiently. - Patience, patience, and patience.
I could show you here.
They call this "Move 78,"
which I found a bit embarrassing.
(A hard blow for humanity)
This move was not supposed to work...
which could have...
been defended perfectly,
but somehow,
it hadn't expected it coming.
When it's faced with a move that's not in its repertoire,
glitches can occur.
I assume that it had not...
expected that move.
Since this Move 78,
AlphaGo started acting a bit strangely.
It went way off.
Did you notice it right away,
- or after some moves? - At first, I thought...
that it was cooking up some scheme.
I was doubtful...
thinking that it had an agenda,
but as time went on,
after some moves, I realized there was a glitch in the system.
Do you remember that moment?
I'm not sure. It was so weird.
Normally, players wouldn't play like that,
actually never like that. It played so strangely.
I just remember thinking: "What is this?"
From then on, it couldn't play the game at all.
Do you remember the moment you walked...
out of the press conference room after you defeated AlphaGo?
This photo is so famous.
- Here we have it. - It became a huge issue.
(Source: News 1)
This looks like...
what we call, the "rotten smile,"
- like a little smirk. - To be honest, I remember...
smiling a little bit,
You went a bit like, "Pff."
Just as in the quote,
"It was not humans, but Lee Se Dol that was defeated,"
but turning it the other way,
"It was not humans, but I that defeated it."
"I defeated it."
(It's not a victory for humanity, but it's my victory.)
I won only once after I had been defeated three times in a row,
but still, I feel ecstatic.
I think this victory is priceless.
How did you feel...
after that victory?
You don't remember that as well?
You're not at a hearing.
Please feel free to talk.
I remember how...
there was a commotion among the Goog** people...
during the game.
Also,
I remember how they just disappeared.
- In search of solutions. - Yes.
Why do I feel so delighted hearing that they were flummoxed?
Tell me about it.
Just hearing you say that there was a commotion...
about the area got us so thrilled.
- It's more thrilling than... - That's true.
watching an equalizer in soccer.
It said that AlphaGo has lost...
- That's what was displayed. - Yes, it was in the caption.
When it was displayed,
- did you see it for yourself or... - I didn't...
- check as I was focused. - That's right.
The man who made the moves was...
- Aja Huang. - Yes, Aja Huang.
He made a gesture.
I'm personally curious now that we're talking about Aja Huang.
He's an incredible man.
In what way is he related...
with AlphaGo...
- Why? - What's going on?
Now that I think of him...
He's a truly remarkable man.
- In what way is he remarkable? - In what way?
I want to laugh too.
He's a human, isn't he?
- And AlphaGo is the program. - That's right.
But he comes off as the real AlphaGo to me.
Why so?
Is he that expressionless?
He has no expressions and never goes to the washroom.
You're right. That was also a big subject.
- He never goes to the washroom. - He never leaves his seat.
And even for water, there's this water.
I guess he can't drink water as he's a machine.
I'm not sure if it's oil or water,
(Like this)
- So he just wets his mouth. - Yes.
- He's like a robot. - Yes. Even his moves are...
very slow...
and precise.
As I watched him,
I wondered what this was.
You know, it really felt like I was playing Go with a robot.
Maybe he practiced at home.
- Yes. Even when he's talking. - "I'll act like a robot."
- I heard later on... - Yes.
that he didn't drink as he couldn't go to the washroom.
Because he couldn't leave his seat.
- So it was like his duty. - Yes.
He was also expressionless...
as he shouldn't have been making any expressions.
Since that could act as a sort of hint.
He was just playing the role of a third person...
to place the stones,
which is why he acted as he did.
But it is really flustering...
when you face him in person.
AlphaGo's official record is...
74 games, 73 wins, and 1 loss.
AlphaGo's only loss was...
due to Lee Se Dol of 9 Dan rank's win.
(Lee Se Dol, the only human to defeat AlphaGo)
(Situational Talk, an advanced talk to analyze...)
(figures by putting them in an extreme situation)
(Lee Dong Wook of probably 17th Kyu versus Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan)
The game of the century is watched by the world.
(Sniffing)
(He's not used to this.)
I'm sorry.
The match between Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan rank,
the only human to beat the legendary Go player AlphaGo...
and Lee Dong Wook of maybe 17 Kyu rank...
who will change the trend in talk shows...
will be held right here.
Bow to each other.
(Feeling sorry for some reason)
Before we start the match, we will listen to each one's resolution.
Who are you talking to?
Lee Dong Wook of maybe 17 Kyu rank, do you feel confident?
I'm not so confident...
in losing.
(Amazed)
It's possible for you to think that.
I'm an amateur now after all.
It's all possible as we are both amateurs.
Match One, a game that requires creative thinking...
outside the box.
It's a nonsense quiz.
I'm excited to see what kind of clever moves will be played.
We'll then start...
with a warm-up quiz.
What is the opposite of "put a smile"?
The opposite of "put a smile"?
- Are you talking about smiling? - Yes.
What is the opposite of "put a smile"?
- "Put a smirk". - "Put a smirk".
What do you think, Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan?
"Put a smile".
In 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
The answer is "take a smile".
(Amazed)
"Put a smile", "take a smile".
- Take. - Put and take.
- "Take a smile". Okay. - Yes.
- We'll start the actual match.
If you know the answer, call out your name...
- and say the answer. - Okay.
- Here's the question. - Why am I getting so nervous?
This is so strange.
Here's the question.
What's a smiling apple?
A smiling apple?
A smiling apple is a blank apple. What goes in the blank?
- If an apple smiles? - Yes.
A smiling apple.
Then it's scary.
Okay.
- The apple is smiling. - The apple is smiling.
The apple is...
Can you give us a hint?
It's five letters.
For the hint, think of the smiling part.
- The smile? - Yes, the smile.
A blank apple.
- For the blank, - Yes.
can you give the first letter?
You're the worst.
Should I give you the first letter?
- Yes. - The first letter is "G".
- "G". - Yes.
- The answer's... I mean, Dong Wook. - Dong Wook of probably 17th Kyu.
It's a green apple.
It's correct.
(Green apple is the correct answer.)
This is how the game will proceed.
- This nonsense quiz is... - What?
"Green" is just like "grin".
(Realized)
- You're amazing. - I am?
Everyone knew except for you.
- Here comes the second question. - Okay.
What is Se Dol's daughter's first birthday party...
in six words?
Can I make a suggestion?
Six words are too long.
It took us an hour to guess...
- five letters. - We couldn't even get...
the blank apple. I couldn't even guess one word.
(Let me think.)
- Dong Wook. - Yes.
Lee Se Dol's junior's first party.
(Amazed)
Correct.
(Lee Dong Wook of 17th Kyu is correct.)
- Do you get it? - I get this one.
Lee Se Dol's junior's first party.
I couldn't even think about it.
- You are doing good. - You are really good.
This is a mismatch.
I'm doing my best.
Okay.
What should I do next? Okay, how about this?
What if Song Hae takes a shower?
(What if Song Hae takes a shower?)
Think of...
how it will feel. How do we feel...
after taking a shower?
Dong Wook.
Fresh Song Hae.
Fresh Song Hae?
Is it the name of a vessel?
Wrong.
Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan.
- You have a chance. - I have no idea.
- Do you want the first letter? - Yes.
It's "P."
"P?"
"P" Song Hae.
(When daddy goes to work, blank, blank, blank)
Song Hae.
Tinky Winky
Dipsy
- Laa-Laa - Laa-Laa
Song Hae.
(The screen is not paused.)
The train for Seoul will be departing soon.
(Is he even listening to the hint?)
Se Dol.
(Finally.)
(Please...)
(Everyone feels the same way.)
Pleasant Song Hae.
Correct!
(You all feel the same way, right?)
- Lee Se Dol! Lee Se Dol! - Lee Se Dol! Lee Se Dol!
I've never actually answered...
a nonsense quiz before.
- You just did. - You answered it correctly.
It may have been harder as you have...
- exact and logical thinking. - Yes.
(So he's experiencing a difficult, yet new experience.)
Match Two is a game that requires good memorization and high focus,
card matching.
You have to flip two cards at a time to find the same match...
Why did you burst out laughing?
I think I will be really bad at this.
- It looks fun. - It's matching cards.
- Card matching. - That's right.
The winner will be decided...
depending on who finds more matching pairs...
after you find all the matching pairs.
- Let's start with Lee Dong Wook. - Yes.
(Lee Dong Wook of 17th Kyu rank begins.)
- Am I allowed to see? - Yes.
- It's a different card. - This is...
Put the cards back. Next is...
- Se Dol. - I don't think this is possible.
Who is this?
- Looking good. - I wonder who it is.
Both of you failed...
in the first round. Now, back to Dong Wook.
First...
He's looking bright.
I really don't know.
The pictures are really hard.
And these are different pictures of the same person.
- I feel like I've seen this. - Yes.
(It was close.)
- Again, back to Dong Wook. - Yes.
It's the same pair. You've got it.
- I did it. - Yes.
(Where did I see this picture?)
You need good memorization...
- It's just off by two fingers. - Yes.
It's a very subtle difference.
- It's just the fingers. - Because these are pictures...
This isn't easy.
I think the pictures really make it difficult.
- This is my picture. - Yes, you're right.
- I'm sorry, but... - Yes.
I think Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan is too talkative.
I'm sorry Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan, but zip.
- Let's keep it down in matches. - It wasn't like that.
(He gets it right when he flips without thinking.)
I'm surprised. You got a pair.
- You found a pair. - Are these the same pictures?
Yes.
They're the same pictures of you.
So they are the same.
How did you get to 9th Dan?
It turns out that he's worked his way up.
I think this card was seen before. It's Dong Wook's picture.
No, I can't find it.
Close.
- It's back to Dong Wook's turn. - All right>
I think there was one that you've seen before.
- If I remember correctly... - Yes.
You've found one.
This is again...
- Yes. - I think I've seen it.
(Consecutively finds another pair)
Dong Wook finds two pairs consecutively.
(Dong Wook's brain is working hard.)
I'll pick this one.
He finds two more pairs consecutively.
This is a mismatch.
Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan complains that this is a mismatch.
(Dong Wook of 17th Kyu rank wins.)
It was a legendary match...
to close the year 2019. Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan...
against Lee Dong Wook of probably 17th Kyu.
- How is this a legendary match? - We'll conclude the match here.
(We thank Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan rank who gave us this idea himself.)
We have Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan at Because I Want to Talk.
After talking to him today,
he was very straightforward with his talking...
and very good at expressing his thoughts.
How is your actual personality like?
I don't know.
I think it's hard for me to describe my own personality.
I want to toss this to my wife.
That was a smooth change.
So how is your husband's actual personality? His actual character.
- Do I have to be honest? - No, not at all.
That was such a true husband and wife talk.
- Just like Dong Wook, - Yes.
when most people think of my husband,
they think of someone cool-headed and serious.
That's right.
But he's really hilarious and cheerful when he's with me.
I often wanted people to learn...
that side of him.
Se Dol at home must feel very different.
He often kills me with his words.
You're doing great.
So at home, he makes a lot of jokes...
and spends a lot of time...
with your daughter?
He's normally playful and spends a lot of time...
- with our daughter. - Yes.
But he's too busy watching idol girl groups nowadays.
(Idol girl groups?)
- Idol girl groups. - That's a top secret.
What is this idol girl group about?
I have...
kind of become a fan recently.
Yes.
It feels so odd for you to say...
that you've become a fan.
- Which group are you following? - I never imagined...
- I'd talk about this. - Yes.
- I'm a fan of OH MY GIRL. - OH MY GIRL.
OH MY GIRL.
- Why did you get to like them? - Before I didn't...
- really know about them, - Yes.
- I was watching this contest... - Yes.
on TV and...
I liked their music, so I started to look them up.
My favorite one is "Remember Me."
"Remember Me."
It was pretty good.
- Even the title is... - "Remember Me."
"Remember Me."
There were also parts...
that I could empathize with my own situation.
I like "Secret Garden."
"Secret Garden."
I knew "Secret Garden" even before I knew OH MY GIRL.
It's their main song.
- I'm spitting out everything. - You were...
a bit like the head of a fan club.
This girl group talk between middle-aged men is really fun.
I shouldn't have revealed this so soon. I should think more.
That's why today...
(Closed lips to constrain his happiness)
Is it not?
(It's not.)
(You show business people...)
Even I was tricked.
What is the producer doing?
You should have cast them.
(Bitter)
I'm sorry.
You two got married rather early.
- You got married at 24, didn't you? - Yes.
Was she your first love?
(Was she your first love?)
Probably.
- She probably was. - "She probably was."
(The woman presumed to be Lee Se Dol's first love)
You're not the type to remember things well.
It's strange.
- So first love. - Yes, my first love.
I'm also curious to learn how you first met.
Yes. How did you first meet?
- We first met each other... - Yes.
- through an acquaintance. - Yes.
I'm the type of person...
- who can socialize easily. - Yes.
But...
- he is known to the public. - That's right.
- Yes. - So I couldn't...
approach him easily as I normally do.
So I told him: "It was nice to meet you,"
and I was about to get in the cab back home...
when he held the door and said:
"Why don't we exchange numbers in remembrance of today?"
That is...
(Masculine Se Dol)
That is how Se Dol would ask.
That was really cool.
You must be 9th Dan in love as well.
That scene is really cool.
Yes. Grabbing on to the door of the cab and saying:
"Why don't we exchange numbers in remembrance of today?"
(This is just like a drama.)
- If I find someone I like, - Yes.
I should get a cab for her.
Even if she brings her own car,
I'll tell her to ride the cab.
She must get on the cab.
There's something I need to do.
- In fact, - Yes.
I couldn't ask about your love life as you are a celebrity.
But now that we are talking about it...
- Since we are it... - Yes.
Good one.
- Lee Se Dol! - Lee Se Dol!
- He's drinking water. - If you can't say,
at least share your type.
- My type? - Yes.
- Well, I don't really... - Or you can...
up the talk.
Yes, reveal it all.
- What do you want? - Tell us something you haven't.
Se Dol asked you something in person.
You should answer him sincerely.
You know, you could talk about your current love life.
- Well, I... - Yes.
- I actually wanted... - Yes.
to tell you...
- from the beginning. - Yes.
- But maybe it'd be rude... - Yes.
- to ask as you are a celebrity. - Yes.
- But since we're talking now... - Yes.
That was smooth.
Since we're talking now? Then you want to know...
how I would exchange numbers?
That's good.
I just ask.
I can't wait until they get on the cab.
If I like someone,
I just ask them...
what their number is.
- You're straightforward. - And I tell them that I'll text.
After we exchange numbers, I see them right on the next day...
and...
eat together.
(Time for reality)
- It's good. - You're very straightforward.
- Thank you for the great answer. - So what just happened?
What just happened?
Okay.
There's a saying that Go is a miniaturized form of life.
It's because all the complex moves...
resemble the choices we have to make in our lives.
Whether one loses or wins...
in a game of Go,
one must review the game to prepare for the next match.
I'm thinking...
that we could take today as a chance...
to review our own lives and prepare...
for a better future.
You never know if you'll find that one miraculous move for your life.
This is...
Lee Se Dol of 9th Dan rank.
(We cheer for Se Dol who'll start the second chapter in his life.)
(A day in December)
(SBS lobby)
(Because I Want to Talk)
I'm the talk analyst, Jo Jung Sik.
Lee Dong Wook is a core member...
in Because I Want to Talk.
It seems like Cho Jung Seok will be in Because I Want to Talk.
- Cho Jung Seok? - That's crazy!
It's Jo Jung Sik.
I carefully monitor the program with my sharp eyes.
Did you watch the last episode of "My Little Old Boy"?
Have you watched "Unanswered Questions"?
Who was in "Law of the Jungle" again?
Have you watched the new talk show?
- The one with Lee Dong Wook? - Yes.
What was it called again?
"Lee Dong Wook Had a Talk."
"He Wanted to Talk."
- It was a bit long. - Yes.
In order to be more approachable to the audience,
we need a memorable acronym of the show name.
"BTK."
"BIT."
"TKS." It's like TTS from Girls' Generation.
(Going overboard)
This isn't it.
This isn't it!
It's a talk show that will warm up your heart this winter.
Because we want an acronym,
we'll be awaiting your vote.
(Please vote on our official website of Because I Want to Talk.)